Both are so hatable, but there can be only one.Georgetown and Connecticut. G’town and UConn. Georgetown University and the University of Connecticut. No matter how you say it, if you are a Syracuse fan or alumni you dislike both of them. Some would say hate them. There are many reasons why you should as well. It is not exactly like their fans go out of their way to make you feel welcome at an away game. But then again, neither do ours. So what is it exactly about these schools? I mentioned during my UConn postgame coverage that I hate losing to UConn far more. But just in general, on an average day, who do you, or better yet who should you hate more?
We first analyze Georgetown. This is the rivalry that helped make the Big East Conference what it is today. It was also one of the premier coaching rivalries in the nation. Back in the 70’s and 80’s Jim Boeheim and John Thompson would battle for hardwood supremacy. Now, it is his kid’s turn. Lifetime, the Orange best the series 42 games to 36. But this rivalry is deeper then wins and losses. This is about two institutions.
Syracuse and Georgetown, above all else, are universities. The two schools and their respective alumni respect the institution's academic reputations. They are both top tier schools, both have very good programs, and both are aware of their good reputations. However, Georgetown suffers from the Beltway ego. It is hard not to be a touch modest when your school is located in the middle of Upstate New York. There is an air of superiority when it comes to someone from Georgetown. It is similar to that of a Yale or Harvard. No one likes that. There are even a few rational students at Georgetown that detest it too I suppose.
Then there are the games. There was the famous last game in Manley Field House where the elder Thompson proclaimed over the loudspeaker “Manley Field House is now closed”. There were the Craig Esherick years where Syracuse owned G’town, especially during the 2003 season where Syracuse beat them three times in the season. Now there is GTIII at the helm for the resurging Hoyas. Does this mean they are just as hatable as ever? Absolutely. But does that mean they deserve more wrath than the Huskey’s? Let us explore.
This rivalry is, without a doubt, the most intense for both schools. I mean it is not every decade you beat your rival in a tournament when they have a number one ranking. This game also features two hall of fame coaches going at it, trying to give each other’s team the business. These feelings of distaste does not come from the attitude about the institution, but really it comes from the feeling that they do not operate by the rules.
Just in the past month I have recounted the many instances in which someone related to University of Connecticut Athletics has either violated the law, violated school policy, or even just simply violated societal norms. Despite all else, people and institutions need to operate within the standards and practices of the group or industry they belong to. UConn, despite what they may say, has not really abided by this over the years. As the show Damages would say, there is a stink about the program. Actions always speek louder than words.
Syracuse leads this series 48 to 34. But that is irrelevant. What matters is the stinging win in MSG, the fact that they beat us before our NCAA run in 2003 and we beat them before theirs in 2004, and that most people hate to lose to this team more than any other Syracuse plays. The surly Jim Calhoun does not make UConn any less hatable.
So where does this leave who is more hatable? Oh you know. When it comes down to it, the face of a team, and the quality of the competition is what matters. UConn over the last five years has been better than Georgetown. Similarly, as John Thompson was the big rival in the 80’s, Jim Calhoun is that rival now. I should have known that my opinion of the team Syracuse wants to beat the most would stay the same despite the return of Georgetown. Syracuse fans hate UConn. Similarly, I have never been treated by opposing fans as terribly as I have with UConn folks.
So there you have it. Looking at it strictly by the facts, you have to hate Connecticut more. Maybe you have some personal experiences that makes you hate Georgetown more, but frankly you probably have 20 that go with UConn. For all the reasons above, you need to hate UConn the most. Let the UConn anonymous posts begin. Who knows, if it insults my intelligence you may find your quote on the side of the blog.
Labels: Basketball, Big East, UConn
This isn't an anonymous (by the way, you spelled it wrong in your text) comment. This is by Donald, from Big East Hoops.
You can go ahead and pick on UConn with their infractions, but that misses the point. Each school has its problems. UConn's are memorable because it's a successful program. If we want to be petty/exact about it, I encourage you to make a full list of issues by players before, during, and after they left their respective colleges. Even throw in graduation rates. If UConn's are indeed much worse than any other school's, I would then be happy to admit that, yes, UConn has an issue. I'm not totally convinced that's the case.
Otherwise, I agree with you. UConn-Syracuse is the rivalry, not Syracuse-Georgetown.
Man, it's a tough debate, isn't it? And though I'm of the school of thought that G'town is the winner..er.. loser.. um.. rival, I can certainly see how it's arguable. I started hateing UConn because of Donyell Marshall and Khalid El-Amin. But I think I started hateing them a little bit less when Calhoun stood up for the Big East and said "I'll never schedule a game against Boston College again," after BC ran off to the ACC. I just thought it was a classy move. His recruits, not so much though.
I want to throw another team in there, though. And I don't know why, and I don't attest they are anywhere near the same level of rival as G'town or UConn, but I HATE losing to Pitt. I hate the fact that now they're "good" all of a sudden their students are "so very loyal." Or perhaps its because of guys like Carl Krauser, who had to do that STUPID arms-cross above his head after he did anything as simple as make a free throw. Maybe it's because in 2003, everytime Pitt was on ESPN, one student was holding a sign that counted down the days until they "danced on bourban street." Well who got the last laugh that year?
p.s. Let's not forget UConn is a state school. Making it a lot easier for recruits with lesser-than-average grades to play there. Such is not the case at the 'cuse
It all comes down to when you started to Bleed Orange. As an '87 grad, I was on the Hill when Ewing and G'town was a national power, and UConn was a podunk school we absolutely owned year in and year out. I still have my "Your Mother is a Hoya" shirt from '85...but can't recall ever owning anything Husky. We just didn't care about them then.
Sure, things are different today. I hate losing to Calhoun just as bad as the next Orangeman. But nothing will ever top SU - G'town in the early years....
I love this. This is exactly what I wanted to have happen. A nice little debate is exactly what this blog ordered, as I haven’t published an article in a bit that has stirred up some crap in a while.
The UConn Blotter, as published on this site before, with additions to present day:
2007: Jerome Dyson
• Charged with underage possession of alcohol and also failed a drug test.
2007: Doug Wiggins
• Charged with underage possession of alcohol and driving with a suspended license.
2006: Donald Thomas
• Charged with assault and breach of peace at Wingz Over Storrs.
2005: A.J. Price
• Stole four laptop computers in June 2005
2005: Marcus Williams
• Stole four laptop computers in June 2005
2005: Antonio Kellogg
• Charged with possession of less than four ounces of marijuana
• Charged with criminal intent to assault a police officer, criminal trespass, and interfering with an officer
2004: Clyde Vaughan
• Charged with patronizing a prostitute and interfering with an officer
2003: Ben Gordon
• Charged with third-degree assault and disorderly conduct, both misdemeanors
2003: Rashard Anderson
• Threatening and breach of peace
2001: Marcus Cox
• Charged with one count of marijuana possession
2000: Tony Robertson
• Accused of scheming to swap tickets for boots at the Timberland Stores at Westfarms Mall. No charges were filed after a four-week investigation.
1999: Khalid El-Amin
• Charged with possession less than four ounces of marijuana after his arrest in Hartford’s North End
1998: Antric Klaiber
• Charged with driving under the influence of alcohol, seat belt violation
• Charged with shoplifting
1998: Doug Wrenn
• Charged with shoplifting $85 sneakers from Bob’s of Hamden
• Cited for disturbance outside of a bar
• Arrested on breach-of-peace charges
1994: Rudy Johnson
• Charged with breach of peace in an incident involving Connecticut women’s basketball player Sue Mayo
1993: Brian Fair
• Charged with shoplifting
1990: Murray Williams
• Charged with driving while intoxicated
Now I am not saying other schools don’t have problems, but overwhelming UConn does.
As for graduation rates, I would have to look into that as I didn’t even take that into account. It cannot be too great for UConn though, as a lot of their players jump to the NBA. I have no idea what Syracuse’s or Georgetown’s would be as well.
Philly 44,
That is amazing you still have your shirt. I think you could probably make mad money off of it on Ebay. I agree, that was the rivalry then. Not to take anything away from UConn these days, but I just wish the current student body knew more about the history of the G’town rivalry so they could appreciate it more.
Orangefreak,
COMPLETELY feel you on the Krauser thing. My friends at UConn and I used to find a common bond in hating him. Pitt makes a good case these days, but the history just is not there like the other two schools. But they are a solid number 3 for me and most Syracuse fans I think.
I must be the only one who has this strange "we need strong enemies" love for Georgetown. They're our Soviet Union. Without them Syracuse University never would have sent a man to the moon (I think that happened). I love playing Georgetown down there where the rules of basketball change to more closely resemble rugby. My favorite Cuse moment until 2003 was Dave Johnson hitting the game winner over Zo in the '92 BET final. I want a strong Georgetown. I respect them.
UConn, I don't think I'd care if they never had a winning season again. I think it all happened after the '95 team with Marcus "Laptops" Williams and that crew.
I want to beat Georgetown in the rivalry sense while I want to beat UConn because I have nothing but disdain for them.
Nice Damages reference. Glenn Close would be proud (and then it would be revealed later on that she wasn't really proud, she was angry. And she ordered a hit on you.)
(Or did she?)
You know what bugs me about Georgetown? The "Hoya Saxa" chant. The word hoya (or hoia) is Greek, and saxa is Latin. The idiots can't even keep their dead languages straight.
At least... that's what wikipedia says.
It's great that you listed each and every UCONN infraction, but perhaps you didn't read my comment. You need to do your homework on Syracuse as well. Otherwise, just listing how bad it is at UConn doesn't really say much.
If I have some free time, I'll take a shot at it. Expect a reply in a few days.
There was Scoop suspended but he was not charged with a crime.
Deshaun Williams in 2001 assulted a girl playing Otto the Orange.
Two lax players were arrested for assult in 2006.
You find anymore, and you can let me know. But you see my point. You are not going to find more than a handfull from Syracuse. That is not the case with the UConn(victs). Also, I gave you a link on the side of my site, but if you are supposed to cover the Big East are you biased for UConn or is this just a fun side adventure in the commenting?
I feel you on the Hoya Saxa Anonymous. As a latin scholar of 4 years it bugs me as well.
Jeff, a few of your dates are backwards, but you are right on the money. It is no fun beating your rival if they suck.
PS - Damages is an awesome show.
#1 - I do this blog for fun. I'm not trying to change the world. If you want to have some healthy banter about sports that’s fine.
#2 – If you think my points are negated by not adding an apostrophe or dropping an s, I’m sorry but you are incorrect
#3 – Applications to be my personal blog editor can be made at the e-mail above. I’m in law school and too busy to sift through my entries with a fine toothed comb sometimes. That will occasionally lead to an absence of an apostrophe or an addition of an s on the end of a word when it doesn’t belong. Typographical errors not withstanding, I stand by my work.
Hey Latin-scholar-law-student, Hoya Saxa is going to get genocidal on the Cuse this weekend (geno- derived from Greek, -cide derived from Latin)! I supposed Lemkin is an idiot too in Cuse-world.
I don't consider a two point win on your home court in overtime warranting a thought that you will destroy us on our home court. Especially after last season you should know better than to run your mouth before the outcome is decided, don't you think anonymous?
Also, latin class was awesome beacuse we watched a lot of movies and I got to go to Italy & Greece. Personally, I would "res ipse loquitur" if you get a win. But that is just my style.
Volenti non fit injuria. That's our style.
Tort law related. I like it. We'll see what happens Saturday.
The massacre's starting already. Outscored 14 points in the first half! By South Florida!
UConn domination over the leprechauns!
Georgetown/Connecticut/South Florida: Who Ya Got?
I think you've got to add South Florida to the discussion. Did you hear their "o-ver-ra-ted" chants last night? How can they be so cocky when they're in dead last and can't even make the Big East Tournament? I can't stand their fans. They should just shut up and realize that it's not that South Florida is so good, it's that both South Florida and the Cuse suck so bad.